Ashburton, New Zealand, is a long way from almost everywhere. With the Pac-ific Ocean to the east and the imposing Southern Alps in the west, a small pastoral town sits insulated in the central plain of the South Island. It is the kind of place you either never leave or else run from. Inevitably, Brent Pope did neither — he has always been different, though.
It has been a long time since he arrived, 15 years now. That fractured elbow has a lot to answer for. What could have happened never did and now he is here. Stuck. Brent Pope is unsure of his journey, but he is glad. A top-class rugby player, Pope was good enough to be selected to the All Blacks squad for the inaugural World Cup in 1987. It should have been the most important event in his sporting life but it never happened — his elbow made sure of that.
He can talk about it now, relaxed at the memory. What might make many bitter just causes Brent Pope to shrug. “People say ‘do you regret it?’ but [if not for the injury] I never would have come over to Ireland,” he says.
Time has moved on considerably since — good time. Things have worked out so well that Ireland is now home. Clontarf was the first stop when he traded two green islands for one back in 1991. It was a nice time to come, a nice time to coach. The game here was in disrepair with most still in awe of Southern Hemisphere rugby.
Along with Warren Gatland, Pope became synonymous with the trend of importing coaches. Some were successful, others less so. Today he worries about the logic of importing coaches despite their qualifications or long-term intentions. Matt Williams — now of Scotland, formerly of Leinster — is a prime example.
“Most of the coaches involved in applying for these [Irish] jobs have been sacked somewhere else,” he says. He is adamant that Ireland can do better from within. “Promoting Irish coaches is the way forward. No one knows your country’s psyche or your country’s players better than your own.”
One problem he worries coaching has not fixed is our mentality. “There has always been something semi-dangerous in the Irish psyche that prefers the tag of underdog. That has always been slightly alarming to me.”
He illustrates his point with reference to Leinster’s exit in this year’s Heineken Cup. “Somewhere along the line Leinster forgot they won their pool, were the only unbeaten team in the pool stages and really had a world-class team crammed full of internationals with a backline that would match any in the world.”
While Leinster may have another chance at the Heineken Cup, he is not so sure about Ireland. “I thought this was Ireland’s best ever chance of winning a Grand Slam with France and England at home.” With that opportunity lost, he now thinks it is time to start preparing for the World Cup with many of the current squad too old.
“There’s going to have to be some of the old timber cleared out,” he laments. “There are players that are into their thirties and by the next World Cup are going to be mid-thirties and they’ve got to go. Otherwise we see the likes of young Shane Jennings heading over to Leicester. That is a huge shame that some of the young up-and-coming players are being asked to leave.”
One of the problems with youngsters like Jennings leaving is that imports are blocking progress. So where does the answer lie? Pope believes indigenous talent should be protected but with the odd exception. “Are players like [David] Holwell, Christian Cullen, a couple of the Ulster guys useful in the province? Yes they are, most definitely. Not many of them, but one or two will always let the younger players see the professionalism involved in southern hemisphere rugby and some of it will rub off.”
After Clontarf, St Mary’s became home. Success followed but he moved on. Today he is the rugby guy on television. The insightful yet constantly entertaining banter with George Hook has caught the nation’s imagination. “We’re the oldest boy-band in town,” he laughs of their growing status. The joking attracts an audience, but it fails to cloak his insightful analysis. He is so ingrained, so loved now, it is impossible to imagine a match without him in studio.
One of this year’s best moments came after Wales beat Ireland to win the Grand Slam. Hook lauded the Welsh coach Mike Ruddock solely for the success but ‘Popey’ was having none of it, noting Ruddock’s predecessor’s part in the triumph.
“I do get annoyed at George’s disdain of whether it’s me or whether it’s New Zealanders per se. We’ve heard it before, certainly George criticising Warren Gatland and then George again criticising Steve Hanson and Graham Henry. I know a lot of the Welsh players and I speak to them. The job that Graham Henry and Steve Hanson both did paved the way for the success … Most teams that are winning take three or four years to get to this stage.”
Some think Pope and Hook argue in the studio until the next game comes around. We’d like to think so. Too much to do, though. A couple of print columns and marketing work keep Brent Pope busy, but his real passion lies in helping others.
Ireland may be home, but New Zealand remains near. For the past four years, he has brought a travelling rugby school to the land he left behind. What started out as a couple of guys accompanying him in the off-season has now become a fully-fledged touring team.
He is immensely proud of the tour. “It’s a fantastic time. I have world-class coaches, players I used to play with, ex-All Blacks. Present All Black coaches come and take sessions.” He is animated now. “It’s something for players out of the loop, something I think is great for grassroots rugby. One of these days we’ll spring an international which will be great.”
Pope loves to help others. He also writes children’s books with proceeds going to charity. He knows he is an unlikely author. “A lot of people are amused, they look at you as kind of a rugged ugly looking rugby jug and then they say you write kids’ books as well?”
He considers his next publication. “I was thinking about writing a new animation thing called ‘By George’ basically with George going around kicking cats and stuff.” One wonders whom it will be based upon?
Life is good now despite the grey hairs. He appreciates Ireland and knows others he has rucked with have not been so lucky. He tells a story about a visit by his one-time adversary and team-mate, the legendary former All Blacks Captain Sean Fitzpatrick, which helps explain why he loves his adopted country.
“He got into a taxi out in the airport and the guy said to him, ‘you’re a solid fellah and you have that accent, where are you from? Do you play any rugby?’ Sean said, yeah I do a bit and the guy said ‘jeez do you know that guy Popey over here.’” He laughs humbly at the irony. Laughing, humble and popular — our Brent Pope.